Agenda item

The Committee considered the People Directorate - Debt Position Statement.

The Chairman informed the Committee that due to an important urgent engagement, Mark Fitton, Strategic Director for People was unable to attend this meeting. Michael Hudson added that a further report would be brought to the December Committee meeting and the Strategic Director for People would be invited to attend that meeting.

In the ensuing debate, the following points were made:

·         Concern was expressed about the mental health and well-being implications of the Council becoming more efficient at chasing down social care debt. Michael Hudson explained that part of the problem was that the cost of social care was not being raised by social workers during the initial care assessment because the focus at that stage was on addressing the physical needs of the service user and not on the financial matters and associated mental health implications. This needed to be addressed in the future. The debt sat with the service user and it was important that the service user understood the charging implications from the outset

·         In response to a query about the ability to charge on an individual’s assets for services, Michael Hudson explained that the Council did enter into legal agreements to charge debt against a property. This had been a very secure means to settle debt with house prices continuing to rise over a prolonged period. However, a downturn in the housing market would be a risk for the Council

·         In response to a query, Michael Hudson indicated that work had not been undertaken to understand the split between of debt between residential and domestic care. Members requested further information on the split

·         In response to a query about the levels of debt write-off, Michael Hudson commented that there was a risk to the Council that the number of write-offs increased, particularly due to the impact of covid. The level of write-off had been kept under review. Debt write-off was used very sparingly and the Council’s legal team made every effort to avoid circumstances reaching that point

·         Debt was a massive issue for the Council and appeared to be moving in the wrong direction, particularly in relation to adult social care

·         There needed to be a clear distinction between the aspects of social care support that were statutory and those elements that were not. If a service was not statutory, the onus should be on the service user to sort out payment arrangements before the service was provided. The Council should not have to seek payment in arrears. Michael Hudson responded that the initial priority was to ensure that the care arrangements were in place for the service user, it was only then that discussions took place about the statutory basis of that care. It was a very complicated process to manage. Different payment approaches were being considered including ‘open banking’ which allowed the Council access to a service users’ account

·         It was requested that further detailed information on the recovery of debt and bad debt calculations be included in the next report to Committee

·         In response to a query about escalating the risks associated with adult social care debt within the organisation, Michael Hudson explained that he along with the Strategic Director for People and the Cabinet Member with Responsibility for Adult Social Care had raised the issue SLT and the Corporate Business Board. The next report to Committee would set out the mechanisms for charging for social care and what aspects of social care the Council could legally charge for

·         In response to a request, Michael Hudson indicated that the table in the report setting out the overview of the People Directorate Debt levels would include an indication of the direction of travel in the next report to Committee. The report would also include an indication on a monthly basis as to how the percentage of unpaid debt related to the level of charges originally raised by the Council.

RESOLVED that the Debt Position Statement for the People Directorate be noted.